“If you slow down and bring people together and look for those connections and look for those similarities, then you can move forward in a really intentional way.” — Callandra Caufield

Travel has the power to transform individuals and communities in profound ways—sometimes for the better and sometimes not. As Executive Director at Explore Cochrane, Callandra Caufield is keenly aware of this balance. She’s working with residents to harness the benefits of tourism for the town while creating visitor experiences that align with local values.

Several tourism operators are already finding success here, but Cochrane is an emerging destination where tourism is yet to be seen as a primary industry. Callandra views this early stage as a unique opportunity to shape the tourism economy from the bottom up in a way that works for residents and preserves its natural surroundings. She calls this approach “community-centred tourism.”

Callandra observes, “When we travel, there’s an opportunity to think, notice, and perhaps change the way we do things.” She incorporates that same thoughtful pause into tourism planning and community engagement to ensure the sector serves Cochrane beyond traditional revenue measures.

You’ll also learn:

• About the opportunities and challenges Cochrane faces as an emerging destination.
• Some of the advantages of leading a destination early in its tourism lifecycle.
• How Explore Cochrane’s approach to tourism places the community first.

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Show notes

Explore Cochrane — The destination management organization for Cochrane, Alberta and surrounding areas, promoting the places, services, products, and attractions in Cochrane, the Bow Valley, and along the Cowboy Trail. 

Canadian Rockies — A segment of the Rocky Mountain range that spans the provinces of British Columbia and Alberta, Canada, the Canadian Rockies is a region of alpine lakes, diverse wildlife, and outdoor recreation sites.

Episode transcript

Callandra Caufield: When we travel, we pause. And that’s what I think travel can do for people, is that we’re moving so quickly. There’s so much information flying at us that it’s really hard to consider making any kind of changes. And I think when we travel, there’s an opportunity to think. And notice and maybe change the way that you do things

David Archer: Hello and welcome to Travel Beyond where we partner with leading destinations to explore the greatest challenges facing communities and the planet surfacing their most inspiring solutions. I’m David Archer from Destination Think recording from Haida Gwaii off the north coast of British Columbia on the territory of the Haida Nation.

On this show, we look at the role of travel and we highlight destinations that are global leaders. We talk to the change makers who are addressing regenerative travel through action in their communities, often from the bottom up. And community centered tourism is the key theme of today’s episode. We’ve had several guests from destination organizations far and wide on this show so far, and whether they’re coming from places like Aspen, Copenhagen, Tofino, or beyond, they’ve all made collaboration and community input a high priority as they shape the way travel affects where they live.

And in most of the destinations we’ve spoken with, tourism is already a big deal. Residents are already used to thinking of the travel industry as a key part of their lives and local economies. But what about places where hosting visitors as an organized industry is a more foreign concept? Today on the podcast, we’re visiting Cochrane, Alberta.

Cochrane is a rapidly growing prairie town located at the edge of the foothills of the Rocky Mountains. And it’s only about an hour’s drive from one of Canada’s most visited and internationally famous destinations, Banff National Park. And yet, Cochrane is a place where, in some ways, tourism is only beginning.

Calandra Caulfield is the Executive Director at Explore Cochrane. Here’s how she describes her town. 

Callandra Caufield: My favorite thing about Cochrane, I’m originally from Saskatchewan, and then I moved to the mountains when I was in high school and Cochrane is on this verge. So I can walk to the east side of my neighborhood and I can see rolling hills and it feels like a farm.

You can feel the agriculture or I can walk to the west side of my neighborhood and I can see the mountains coming up in the distance. And I think that’s probably one of my favorite things is that we just sit right in the middle and we’re, 30 minutes from downtown Calgary. We’re 40 minutes from the Rockies.

We’re close to Drumheller and there’s a lot of open space here. 

David Archer: Callandra also tells us that Cochrane is an emerging destination, a lesser known place that’s a little out of the way. Tourism is not yet considered a primary industry, although there are several successful tourism operators in the area. At Explore Cochrane, Calandra is steering this emerging destination toward what she calls community centered tourism.

And what that means, in part, is moving at a pace that reflects local values and priorities while taking care of their natural surroundings. And one thing that I really appreciated about this conversation is Calandra’s observation that travel can cause us to pause and notice new things, new ideas, and opportunities.

Cochrane has a real opportunity to shape the way tourism grows from the bottom up and from the very beginning. So it’s inspiring to hear this strong commitment to do it well. Let’s go now to hear the conversation between Rodney Payne from Destination Think and Calandra Caulfield, Executive Director at Explore Cochrane.

Callandra Caufield: So I’m Calandra and I’m the Executive Director at the Cochrane Tourism Association. 

Rodney Payne: And what makes Cochrane feel like home for you? 

Callandra Caufield: So we moved here in 2016. And, um, I think there is a really strong community here. And as I got into this role, I started to meet more and more people in tourism and outside of tourism who are really committed to just doing good things for their community.

And I feel like since I started here, this feels more like home than it ever has. 

Rodney Payne: Is there a memorable moment or experience that sticks in your mind from your time here that highlights what makes this place so special? 

Callandra Caufield: So Calgary is having this water crisis right now where their pipes broke but that happened in Cochrane in October but we had even less access to water and the way that the community came together was really beautiful to see.

Rodney Payne: And where is Cochrane in its development as a destination? 

Callandra Caufield: We’re an emerging destination. So there’s been a Tourism Association since 2007, and my predecessor did a lot of work. She shifted from a destination marketing to a destination management organization. So, uh, So there’s been a lot of work supporting our partners developing experiences.

And we’re now at a point where I could comfortably say, come to Cochrane for three or four days. There’s enough here to do that. You could have a really nice time. And because we’re a hub, you can go check out some other nearby neat attractions as well. 

Rodney Payne: What are some of the benefits that come from? Sort of having a destination, uh, to steward that’s closer to the beginning of its life cycle.

Callandra Caufield: Oh man, there’s so many benefits. Like I, I’ve been in the tourism world for a long time and we talk about the problems that tourism creates. So we have this really, we almost have a crystal ball where we can see, um, different possible outcomes and we have an opportunity to choose which outcome we want versus being a mature destination.

That’s now saying, how do we fix this? We can be a destination that says, how do we make sure that this just doesn’t happen here? 

Rodney Payne: Yeah, that opportunity to be proactive and have foresight also amongst the industry is very special. 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, it is. It’s exciting. 

Rodney Payne: So what are some of the reasons that people visit?

Callandra Caufield: Well, right now, do you want the truth, do you want the truth? Some of the reasons people visit is that they’re interested in the Canadian Rockies, but they’ve become so expensive they’re hard to go to. Um, we have a huge visiting friends and relatives market, so a lot of people in Cochrane are not from Cochrane.

So we’re seeing more and more people who are moving here, especially from Ontario. They like that verge as well, how they’re close to the mountains and they’re bringing their friends and family here to experience Cochran. And then I think we are now just starting to get an international market that is interested in cowboy culture.

They’re interested in indigenous culture and they recognize that Cochran is maybe a bit undiscovered. We’re a bit of a hidden gem versus some of the more popular destinations. 

Rodney Payne: How do you think that tourism can impact the future of this place? 

Callandra Caufield: I think tourism, for me, um, I’m really excited about tourism, measuring tourism outside of just that economic silo.

I think tourism has an opportunity to engage in reconciliation action, which I’m excited about. Some of our partners are doing environmental conservation work with their tourism. Some of our partners are, you know, raising up groups like women or people that are differently abled. in how they do their experiences.

So I just think there’s a lot of potential to do things. Yes, it’s an economic driver and I’m excited about that, but I think it can do multiple things. 

Rodney Payne: How do you think that local residents view tourism at the moment? Is it on their radar? Is it? 

Callandra Caufield: I think tourism, you could say to a local resident, you know, we’re the tourism association and sometimes I’ll hear, we have tourism here.

They don’t necessarily, they think of tourism as going to Mexico and staying at a resort. They don’t necessarily consider what tourism Could be in Cochrane and there’s some fear. There are some people that, you know, they moved here and they’d like to shut the door behind them and they don’t want to see a lot of people coming into the town.

So a lot of our messaging is about how we can do tourism differently. 

Rodney Payne: What lessons have you learned from either, you know, being involved in or watching other destinations about managing growth? 

Callandra Caufield: I think it’s a couple of things. I think being intentional about growth. So I just think in the past growth was.

You got as many heads and beds as you could and you didn’t consider those impacts. So I think now being a little more deliberate about considering 360, if I engage in this action, what are the, what are all of the reactions we’re going to get from this? So I think that opportunity to be deliberate. Uh, and I also think, We weren’t talking about, you know, when I went to school 20 years ago, we didn’t care what the community thought of tourism.

We just didn’t talk about it. And now I think, uh, you know, one of our goals is to really understand. What our community would like to see for tourism and explain to them how tourism doesn’t have to be being overrun and alienated in your community. 

Rodney Payne: How important is it that the vision for tourism and how you try to shape the tourism sector aligns to community values?

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, it’s critical. I think if it’s, I’ve been hearing this, you know, if it’s not a good place to live, it’s not a good place to visit. And I think it’s absolutely critical that the two things are aligned, but also that you’re getting information out there. I think there’s some surface digging below the surface that has to happen where people sometimes have an immediate reaction or a fear and it starts to taking that time to engage and explain.

And I had a partner recently, I, you know, gave her my regenerative tourism spiel and she said, yeah, but do you actually have the tools to do that? And I thought that was a really good question. Like I can talk about it, but what does it actually look like? And I think that’s going to be our work is explaining that.

Rodney Payne: Do you have the tools to do it? 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah. Yes, I think we do have the tools, but I think we’re in a discovery phase right now. And I think. Simply just being intentional and noticing. I’m a gardener, and one of the things that I find with my garden is if you just stop and notice the interactions that are happening, it allows that careful planning.

And I think what we’re doing right now, talking about it, talking about it, talking about it, means that when somebody suggests, um, something in our community that doesn’t align, we’re going to notice it really quick. That will get flagged to us because it just doesn’t line up with what we’ve been talking about for, you know, months and months.

Rodney Payne: Yeah, they often say that about good culture within organizations as well, is that if something happens within the organization, the existing culture will sort of, will notice that really quickly and oftentimes reject it. It’s really interesting to think about that from a destination perspective as well.

How are you enabling some of these conversations or, or sort of understanding the values of the place and the industry’s priorities? Cause it sounds. It sounds very collaborative. Are there, are there certain things that you’re doing that might help other people to think about? 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah. So we have something called our tourism mentorship program, and that’s a 13 week program.

And it was originally started to help people understand how to develop experiences for visitors. And it still is that. But we’ve really started to weave in this conversation about, we call it community centered tourism. We weave that conversation in through the 13 weeks over and over and over again. How can we look at this marketing from this perspective?

How can we look at operations? How can we look at pricing from this perspective? So I think that’s been really valuable. We’ve had about four weeks. 40 operators run through that program. And I always tell them like, you are now my ambassadors. You need to start talking about this. Now you need to start considering how you’re going to do this.

And then recently we just started Explore Cochran connects. So that’ll be a series that happens at least four times a year. And that’s an opportunity again, to keep talking about these things so that people are aware that they’re happening. And in September, we’re going to talk all about this. That’s what our session will be is what is community centered tourism and how can we be changing things even just a little bit to ensure we’re benefiting from visitors. 

Rodney Payne: In some of the conversations we had with, uh, some of your tourism operators, it, it really does feel like there’s quite a tight mesh that, that is quite unique. Do you think that comes from being sort of an emerging destination that people inherently wanted to collaborate to get something started? 

Callandra Caufield: Like I think we’re lucky we have some real exceptional people in this area and I don’t necessarily think it started because they were working together but I think the opportunity I’ve had is to notice those people and start to consider how can we begin working together?

And as I’m sitting down with each of our partners, when I start to hear that talk about collaboration, there’s, you know, things that they’re thinking of doing to be more careful with the environment, more careful with our culture. How can I then plug you into these people who are already doing that? So I think that’s, I kind of, that’s an exciting opportunity for me is to start to weave the web and see those connections so that those people that are really strong, those ambassadors can start to collaborate and work with other operators. So that’s the direction they take as they develop. 

Rodney Payne: What’s the relationship like at the moment between the tourism board and the local government?

Is there, you know, especially when I, I start thinking about how do you manage tourism, and policy often plays such an important role in that, and it’s such a difficult space to influence. 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, it is. 

Rodney Payne: How do you see that relationship at the moment, and how do you hope it evolves? 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, I mean, we’re really at a point right now where tourism, as I think it is in a lot of places, is not a top priority.

It’s a thing that’s yes, it’s here. It’s nice. There’s other industries that generate significantly more revenue. And if you are, again, just looking at that revenue only measurement tool, uh, it’s not as strong as some of the other industries. So I think there’s not necessarily recognition for the opportunities here.

We’re working on that. And what I really hope as we grow is that we can get everybody on the same page about how we can, um, proactively develop tourism versus using ideas from 20 years ago where we’re just going to build it big and we don’t care who shows up. We just want anyone to come. And it’s interesting here in that we interact with multiple municipal governments.

So we have our town, but we also have three municipal districts around us and each of them have different policies and bylaws and land use bylaws and ideas. So again, it’s that collaboration piece where we’re needing to get everyone at the table to start talking about how can we as a region create this thoughtful tourism development together so that that’s really the work is getting everybody on the same page.

Rodney Payne: You, you mentioned, um, revenue only sort of success. What are some of the other ways that you think about success and would, would like to, you know, be championing? 

Callandra Caufield: I’m really keen on, um, reconciliation pieces. We have, uh, a center here that is starting to do that work and we’re starting to collaborate with them more and more.

I’m keen on how tourism can be used as a leverage for revenue generation for not for profits. So some of our not for profits, whether they be. People that are looking at regenerative food solutions, people that are, um, looking at housing. We’re looking at how can they create events or how can they even create tourism products that they can then use to drive their not for profits.

And I think that’s kind of a interesting, unique thing that’s, that I’m seeing. 

Rodney Payne: Yesterday, we had the chance to talk to a sample of your industry. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Why those businesses a good representation of sort of the, the tourism model that, that you hope to, to develop and, and foster.

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, I think for many different reasons. One of the things I, You know, could have mentioned earlier is that there’s interest in agritourism. People are really interested in exploring that space, but it’s really hard to develop. There’s neighbors who are living in the country for a reason. So I think, uh, Bruce and Nathan are finding ways to, uh, invite people to those agritourism spaces in a way that isn’t negatively impacting their community. So that’s exciting to me. Um, I love the animal conservation piece that Georgina does, and that’s such a great example of a not for profit that found a way to use tourism as a lever to, to meet their end goal, which is animal conservation. And then with Kelsey, I love how she’s working with women to get them out into nature and feel more comfortable.

And then not just women, but encouraging people. Who maybe wouldn’t go buy a sup and get out on the river themselves. She really focuses on empowering people to get outside and feel good in those spaces. So different with everyone, but they all have, um, a really strong goal in mind and it’s, it’s usually not connected to just making money.

Rodney Payne: There’s some really special themes that came up through those interviews yesterday around, um, Connecting visitors to the natural world in a way that they may not. I pick the words natural world carefully, because that could mean animals, or pollinators, or the broader environment sort of outside our, you know, human agricultural environment.

And also how the identity of the place can be built and fostered through connections with visitors. Those are really important. Powerful themes for tourism operators to be thinking about, you know, often it’s, it’s only destination managers who get really geeky in that, in those areas and, you know, opportunities for locals to be involved in businesses as well, probably comes along with being an emerging destination and exposing visitors to the world around them to the local way of life to complete that circle in terms of identity building and creation. Is that something that you would love more people to be doing? Is that, you know, is that part of your vision for the place? 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, I call it undercover education. Where you bring people into an experience that is fun and entertaining.

And in the meantime, you’re changing their perspectives because of the way that they’re engaging. And I think all the operators you met with yesterday engage in that undercover education in some way or another where people are learning, but I think their perspectives are also changing. I think they’re going home a little bit differently with a different understanding or appreciation for the natural world or, um, for the culture of a place and.

And because we’re still small and those experiences aren’t, you know, very busy, overwhelming experiences, I think people have an opportunity to have those things sink in a little bit more. 

Rodney Payne: Yeah, we, we know from countless academic studies that we’re a lot more open to learning and new ideas when we’re outside of our normal environment.

Yeah. That is the power of tourism. For decades, we’ve let that happen very organically. It’s been discovery and, and it hasn’t been forced. And I think what you’re describing, I like the term undercover education, because I think there’s an opportunity to be very intentional about that in terms of spreading a place’s values and elevating those values to, to try to shift sort of human consciousness.

Callandra Caufield: Well, and I don’t think, You know, like I think our operators are intentional about it, but I don’t think it’s they sat down with a business plan and wrote out the values that they were going to share. I think they all hold those values like they are absolutely foundational values. So they just come out.

It’s not something that’s it doesn’t have to be forced because it is really how they live. And that’s, that’s what I love about all of them. There’s nothing about it that feels like a script. It’s, that’s how they live, that’s what they believe, so it’s easy for them to share that. 

Rodney Payne: Are there any examples of sort of things bubbling up from the community’s values?

Whether it’s outside of businesses, but are there any initiatives you’re watching that, you know, tourism might be able to support or is supporting? 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, we have a really great organization here called Bike Cochrane. I would love to do a study on them because they’re a volunteer board, but the amount of, um, success and, uh, things that they’ve done since they’ve started is remarkable.

So their mandate is to connect the community so that people can cycle around the community and they don’t need tourism. Frankly, we’ll partner with them and I’m sure we can find neat things to do, but they’re an organization that that’s doing some pretty cool things. And we also have a group of, um, people that are interested in food sovereignty.

And there’s multiple organizations that are doing that. And we have been involved with those organizations as well, as to how can we ensure the people in our community can eat and how can we bring visitors in and, and use this as a teaching or a learning experience or an engagement experience as well.

And then support some of those initiatives that are happening. So I know there’s more, but those are two that I can think of right off the bat. 

Rodney Payne: Both of those are exceptional, right? Because if you can give visitors more active transportation, it gives them time to more deeply connect. 

Callandra Caufield: Yep. 

Rodney Payne: And takes pressure off congestion and, you know, pollution and all kinds of benefits.

And being an agri tourism opportunity, there’s also that magic connection between the experience people have and trying to elevate more and more local options throughout the visitor experience. 

Callandra Caufield: Yes. 

Rodney Payne: Instead of having to import food. And in that same way, creating more local food sources and helping to increase resilience.

Are you seeing any examples of that happening organically already? 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, so the food sovereignty group, like, there really are multiple groups that are working on this, but we have pear trees that line Main Street, and the pears fall every year and rot. So this year there’s going to be a harvest, and they’re going to create food that can go, so we have a free food shed.

Um, the executive director of Helping Hands is assuming that. Super inspiring lady. They built a shed that’s attached to a church and anyone can leave food in it. There’s fridges and freezers. And so the free food shed will benefit from that. And then the community gardens grow rows for the free food shed.

So there’s a lot of interaction that’s happening in that group. 

Rodney Payne: How do you think small things like that help to build Cochran’s identity? 

Callandra Caufield: Oh, I think, um, that everywhere in the world is polarized. And it is really easy to feel like, um, that the community is angry, that, um, people are not doing good things.

And I think when you watch a small action like that take place, it’s really, like, people want that so bad right now. They want to see people bringing joy. They want to see people supporting others. So I think it’s those things. little pieces when people can hear that little, you know, that little sound clip and they think, Oh, that’s really great.

Like there’s just everything good about that. I think it, it inspires people to continue to do those things. 

Rodney Payne: We often say so much potential for knowledge sharing around the world and for different places to learn from each other. Everyone’s sort of grappling with different opportunities and challenges.

Are there any parts of the world that you look to? 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah, I mean, I love looking at the destinations that are just a bit outside, really popular destinations. So I think I’ve mentioned before, like the Emilia Romagna region in Italy, I find fascinating because they are in this country with, that’s filled with super destinations that everybody wants to go to.

And they were able to create an identity and invite people to a part of the country that really was, you know, kind of got passed through quite often. Yeah. So I’m inspired by what they’re doing. So I’m interested in emerging destinations. 

Rodney Payne: What do you think? Cochrane’s balsamic vinegar? 

Callandra Caufield: I love that. You know, I don’t know.

We have a few opportunities. Um, I think. Our organization right now is really small and we need, um, to grow our organization to really be able to evaluate some of those opportunities. I see, you know, we’re outside of an old Olympic destination. Um, Calgary 88 was here. So the sport community is really strong here.

Um, there might be some opportunities for, uh, adaptive sports. Um, there’s people in the community interested in that. So that might be something that we look at. Or, um, You know, the community really leans into our Western heritage. Is there a way to pair that, um, with Indigenous tourism in a unique way?

That’s an opportunity for us, but we need some time to evaluate and talk to the community. What would they like to see happening here? 

Rodney Payne: Yeah, having, having something that creates an identity, like, like a wine region, right? And having, having something like that is a very, very powerful galvanizing force, both for community and industry and reputation. It’s a brilliant way to be thinking. 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah. We just have to find it. 

Rodney Payne: Yeah. I’m still looking for volcanic vinegar. 

Callandra Caufield: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it’ll, you’ll, you’ll probably find it under a rock somewhere. 

Rodney Payne: Yeah. I think so. Yeah. What legacy do you hope to leave through your work in terms of sustainability and the future?

Callandra Caufield: I hope people are thoughtful and they notice things. That’s to me, I think that’s the most critical thing is that, um, as you’re exploring development, I think sometimes we can. Move so quickly that we don’t stop to notice all of the impacts. So, a lot of the work that we do with our tourism partners is, let’s sit down with this idea and really look at it from a 360.

How is this going to impact tourism? All of these different elements that we might not have talked about in the future. Um, so I hope for that and I hope to create ambassadors who are on board with these ideas and regardless if I’m personally here or not, the ideas continue on because people are excited about them.

Rodney Payne: If there’s one piece of knowledge you could instill in your tourism industry, what would it be? 

Callandra Caufield: Oh, I don’t know. That’s a tough question. One piece of knowledge. I mean, I think I already said it. You have to notice. Like you have to pay attention. I don’t think we notice very often. 

Rodney Payne: And what about the community?

You know, thinking about the citizens here, what’s one thing you wish they knew about tourism or the potential within tourism? 

Callandra Caufield: The potential within tourism? No, I think I wish the community knew that tourism does not have to be an encroachment. Tourism can, um, support many different things. It can support the economy.

It can support jobs. But it can support a bunch of other things that I don’t think the community necessarily realizes. Which is fair because it hasn’t in the past. It’s pretty new that it’s doing that. 

Rodney Payne: Yeah. And it’s hard to make visible too, right? It takes work to make those connections. 

Callandra Caufield: Yes. 

Rodney Payne: What do you hope the world can learn from Cochrane?

Callandra Caufield: I hope the world can learn, um, that if you slow down and bring people together and look for those connections and look for those similarities, um, that you can move forward in a really intentional way. 

Rodney Payne: And what do you hope visitors take away from their trip? 

Callandra Caufield: From their trip to Cochrane. Um, I hope visitors, uh, you know, I’m stealing this from other destinations, but I hope visitors feel like they were a part of our town.

Like they belonged here. I, I think there’s a lot of opportunity for their, them to engage more meaningfully. I hope they leave Cochrane and something, a perspective has changed. That’s what I really hope. 

Rodney Payne: What does leadership mean to you? 

Callandra Caufield: That’s a tough question for me because I’m new in, in leadership. This is a repeating theme, but I think it’s finding the connections and finding the patterns and drawing those people together.

That’s what I spend a lot of my time doing is, Oh, hey, you know, I just talked to someone about something very similar. You two should talk. And I think as we start to forge all of those connections, it gets stronger and stronger and stronger. 

Rodney Payne: What do you hope that Cochrane looks like in 10 years? 

Callandra Caufield: I hope, um, that Cochrane has grown intentionally.

We’re going to grow, so we don’t have an opportunity there. But I hope that we have grown in a way where connectivity increases. That’s a really big piece and thankfully Byte Cochrane is working on that. I hope we’re being more considerate about how we design our neighborhoods. Things like water retention and and how we can plant the community in a way that we’re reserving water.

Uh, and I hope that there’s a flourishing tourism industry with some really interesting, engaging experiences and that there are smaller groups of people coming here to experiencing it, to experience it. I don’t hope to see buses all over main street. Um, I hope to see small engaged groups here. 

Rodney Payne: And what do you think that the travel experience can do for the world in the moment we’re in?

Callandra Caufield: I think we’re so distracted right now. When we travel, we, we pause. And that’s what I think travel can do for people, is that we’re moving so quickly, there’s so much information flying at us, that it’s really hard to consider making any kind of changes. And I think when we travel, there’s an opportunity to think and notice and maybe change the way that you do things.

David Archer: This has been Travel Beyond presented by Destination Think, and you just heard from Rodney Payne speaking with Callandra Caufield, Executive Director at Explore Cochrane. We’ll include links to more resources on the blog for this episode at DestinationThink. com. My co producer is Sarah Raymond de Booy.

This episode has been created and has theme music composed by me, David Archer, Lindsay Payne, Cory Price, and Jamie Sterling provided production support. We’d also like to thank Explore Cochrane for sponsoring this episode. And if you’d like to help more people find this show, you can subscribe, you can leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you happen to be listening, or you can just tell a friend.

We’ll talk to you next time.