“We underestimate the power of the people. And that balance of people and nature is what makes a place successful and will enable it for all of the future generations.” — Amy Thacker

What happens when rugged farmland and breathtaking wilderness become more than just scenery? What if they’re an invitation to experience a way of life? In British Columbia’s Cariboo Chilcotin Coast region, agriculture and tourism blend naturally. Together, they create a deep connection to the land—one that inspires visitors and fosters local pride. For Amy Thacker, CEO of the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast Tourism Association and a farmer herself, this unique combination brings the region’s stories to life.

The Cariboo Chilcotin Coast has a rich agricultural history stretching back to the gold rush era, when cattle drives and livestock movement shaped the land and its communities. Today, both Indigenous and non-Indigenous ranchers continue this legacy. Each of the region’s diverse subcultures brings its own perspective, but together they hold a sense of pride in the land and a commitment to preserve, nurture, and share it with others.

Amy explains that visitors encounter this environmental stewardship in various ways. Whether they’re learning about ranch life, joining citizen science projects, or simply spending time outdoors, they connect with a way of life that respects the environment—even if it comes with the culture shock of being off the grid and away from cell service.

Ultimately, she hopes visitors see that the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast is more than a destination—it’s a place to find connection, peace, and balance, where a shared bond with the land is matched by a strong sense of community, inviting everyone to feel part of this unique way of life.

You’ll also learn:

• How visitors can get involved in local stewardship projects.
• About common misconceptions and insights into educating visitors as a destination.
• The heightened perceptions of wildfire risk as a challenge to running tourism businesses. 
• Why world-class artists and musicians are drawn to the region. 
• How the region has responded and worked together during times of strife.

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Show notes

Barkerville Historic Town & Park — A National Historic Site and Provincial Heritage Property, this not-for-profit charitable organization is recognized as the largest living history museum in Western North America. 

Cariboo Chilcotin Coast Tourism Association — The regional destination management organization that leads tourism development and marketing in the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast Region. 

Grey Ghost Farm — A small family farming operation at Baker Creek, British Columbia, providing naturally-raised lamb, beef and produce.

Episode transcript

Amy Thacker: Agriculture for me is like tourism. It’s, it’s a way to share with the world, educate people, build connections where there isn’t other commonality and do a little bit of good.

David Archer: Welcome back to Travel Beyond, where we partner with leading destinations to bring you inspiring solutions to the greatest challenges facing communities and the planet. I’m David Archer from Destination Think, recording from Haida Gwaii, the territory of the Haida Nation off the north coast of British Columbia in Canada.

On this show, we are actively looking for the best examples of efforts to regenerate economies, communities, and ecosystems. So be sure to reach out if you have a story to share with us. And we have been talking about the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast region lately. And this episode, Amy Thacker joins us. She is the CEO of the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast Tourism Association.

Last time we spoke to her was at her organization’s AGM in 2023 and she discussed what she called the impact fatigue felt by residents in the tourism industry following seasons of severe wildfires and the onset of the pandemic. She also told us a little about how sustainability is baked into the culture of the region, even if some residents would use other words to describe it.

And this time our team sat down with Amy at home at Gray Ghost Farm to see for ourselves one of the places that she loves the most and some of the things that keep her spark alive which includes farming by the way something that she’s heavily involved with amid her duties as CEO it’s a special kind of balance that she’s found in this location and it blends well with The sense of connection that she and local tourism operators hope to impress upon visitors.

And speaking of that sense of connection, we have just released a short film called Connection. It is on the Destination Think YouTube channel, and it features several of the tourism operators that you’ll hear on the podcast, as well as Amy. Uh, it’s, it’s a gorgeous film that shows some of the stewardship actions and, uh, and sort of the dedication to place that permeates the region. Um, it was produced by Arcade Motion and I highly recommend you go check it out on our YouTube. This upcoming conversation today went into the ways that visitors encounter environmental stewardship, whether it’s learning about ranch life. Doing some citizen science or just spending some time outside.

And many times, Amy says, people from the city aren’t prepared for the culture shock that they’ll get from being off the grid and away from cell service for a while. And I can relate a little bit in Haida Gwaii, even though I have cell service, I often think about the physical silence here compared to my former life in Vancouver.

And. Yeah, you get kind of a reverse shell shock the first time that you’re here, I think, just with the contrast to the big city. And there are some common misconceptions that visitors have about Amy’s part of the world. She says, much of this has to do with the region’s size, and like I mentioned last episode, the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast covers an enormous swath of land in B.C., and the province as a whole covers more territory than the size of France and Germany combined. So, just because there is A wildfire somewhere doesn’t mean it’s impacting the tourism experience. Heightened perceptions of wildfire risk, though, are understandable, and they’re also part of the challenge of running tourism businesses here.

And Amy shares some of the ways the region has responded, and she points to the willingness of residents to including diverse groups of both settlers and Indigenous communities to work together during times of strife to take care of one another and their visitors also. So get ready for an encouraging conversation about finding balance in life and in tourism.

Here is Steve Henderson from Arcade Motion, speaking with Amy Thacker, CEO at Cariboo Chilcotin Coast Tourism Association.

Amy Thacker: My name is Amy Thacker and we’re in Baker Creek in the North Chilcotin. 

Steve Henderson: And where are we situated right now? 

Amy Thacker: We’re sitting on the front patio of our, uh, new farm property here at Baker Creek. 

Steve Henderson: And you have a bit of an important role in the CCCTA. Um, could you speak about your role and what you do? 

Amy Thacker: Yeah, some people say it’s an important role. Um, I’m the CEO of Cariboo Chilcotin Coast Tourism and, uh, I’ve been with them for about 14 years. 

Steve Henderson: What are some of the things that you do as a CEO? 

Amy Thacker: What are some of the things I do as a CEO? Um, everything and anything. We do a lot of work in policy development and advocacy, business support and development.

And then, uh, the team in our office has the opportunity to run most of the programming. So consumer marketing, market business training and development, destination development policies. But most of my day is. I jokingly say finding the money to invest in the industry that needs to grow so others can spend it wisely.

Steve Henderson: I just want to ground this conversation on your new farm here. So can you tell us about an average morning right now in lambing season on your farm? 

Amy Thacker: An average morning in lambing season? Yeah, sure. So I enjoy the peace and quiet of the morning. Most days we’re up early and can steal a cup of coffee before we go out and do our rounds and check all of the expecting ladies and waiting and if nothing’s happening then we feed livestock and dogs and come back up for breakfast before we start chores or a work day.

And while I’m lambing there’s a little bit more work involved. We check the ladies and waiting every two hours. 24 hours around the clock. So it depends on if something’s happening, whether I can stroll out and enjoy beautiful stars and a moonlight and stroll back in, or whether I’m out there for a couple hours helping a new baby into the world.

Steve Henderson: 24 hours a day. 

Amy Thacker: 24 hours a day. Yep. Yeah. I have not got them trained to lamb between nine to five. They’re really bad at that. We’ve had a lot of 2am and 4am ones this year. I’ve, I’ve told the girls we need a memo and we’re going to have a discussion, but. They don’t always listen. 

Steve Henderson: I’ll call HR. Why do you feel at home here in the region in the region?

Amy Thacker: Yeah, I feel at home in the country in the region. I was born and raised all over B. C. and Alberta, primarily my dad cowboy. So I grew up on working cattle ranches mostly. And then they started with sheep and we’ve. Um, lived everywhere from the Okanagan, to the Kootenays, to the Cariboo, down around the Kamloops area, on off grid farms with no running water, to great big multi billion dollar ranches, and, uh, I feel at home on the land.

I always seem to come back to the, to the Cariboo and the lifestyle, the slower pace, um, This region is a place where you can still live in balance with the land and this particular property excited us because we can help it heal and regenerate it and grow into its potential. 

Steve Henderson: Yeah, so on that note, does your job at the CCCTA make you feel more connected to this place, to the land?

Amy Thacker: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a connection to the people, for sure. My job gives me the opportunity to support the people that are passionate about those causes. Whether, you know, it’s, you know, bringing a heritage site back to life or developing a new Indigenous cultural product or a nature hiking tour to help people understand the cycle of wildfire on the land and the balance of nature.

Um, each one of those entrepreneurs share that passion and we have a blessed opportunity to help them bring that to life and educate the world. 

Steve Henderson: Right on. So Grey Ghost Farms, was that a name that that was attached to the place before you came here? Or was that you? 

Amy Thacker: Now, Grey Ghost Farm’s my sheep farm name.

Um, and it came from my property at Springhouse, just south of Williams Lake. So I bought a piece of property there that was completely vacant other than a house and developed it into a small farm about 14 years ago. And, uh, our first fall on the land, um, The deer, the mule deer came and went on the property.

And that spring two does came and delivered their twins on my front lawn and came back every weekend and nurse their babies and laid on the lawn. So one of the nicknames of the mule deer is the gray ghost of the forest. Cause they’re elusive. You can see them and they can step into the bush in their camouflage and disappear.

So grey ghost farm was named in honor of the mule deer that we lived with. 

Steve Henderson: Beautiful. How do you balance grey ghost? 

Amy Thacker: Uh, I don’t think it’s a balance. I think they’re symbiotic. Uh, the farm and the land, and whether I’m taking my fly rod to the lake and going fishing, or going out to work with the sheep, or getting on my horse and going for a ride, are all the things that fill up my soul and give me energy to be able to do the work that I do on, in my day job, and to support the operators that we support here.

Steve Henderson: Totally. And I know you have a long history of farming and ranching and your family. Does, is it important for you to run a farm like this? Does it help you connect to the people in the region on a different level? 

Amy Thacker: Oh, good question. I don’t know. I’ve never really looked at it that way. It really is who we are.

Um, I’ve thought a lot over the years, especially as agriculture gets expensive and challenging and, uh, the views of the, I’ll say, modern world are not so positive on it. We do a lot of education. We get attacked personally quite frequently and, and try to, to moderate that through education. So we’ve talked about do we do less?

Do we balance that differently? Our first grandchild’s come into the world. Should we be looking at family differently? And um, can’t imagine not doing it. This is, agriculture for me is like tourism. It’s, it’s a way to share with the world, educate people, build connections where there isn’t other commonality and do a little bit of good.

We provide food, we provide education, we provide a place for people to come to heal. Um, I’ve been blessed with all different opportunities for the farm to make a difference in people’s lives. And I couldn’t imagine not doing it. 

Steve Henderson: That’s beautiful. 

Amy Thacker: I totally agree

Steve Henderson:. There’s often a lot of misconceptions about what it means to farm. There is a lot. I mean, there is. 

Amy Thacker: Absolutely. 

Steve Henderson: Yeah. 

Amy Thacker: Every sector can be done poorly and can be done well. And, um, I think one of the commonalities for me is that agriculture and tourism done well provide a healthy lifestyle and a connection that creates more good in the world and helps people improve and learn through that.

Steve Henderson: On that note, what can you tell us about agriculture and broad strokes and food security in the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast? The 

Amy Thacker: Cariboo Chilcotin Coast? Yeah, there’s a long history of agriculture through the region. Um, all the way back to the gold rush, as the hordes came seeking gold, and North America developed, food followed, right?

Where there’s masses of people, and that originally was food. through cattle drives and the movement of sheep and cattle. Um, and that legacy has carried on with our Indigenous and non Indigenous ranchers. The Cariboo and Chilcotin are large cattle destinations, but we’ve seen Probably in the last 15 years, an increase in other food production.

So if you travel now, like Forest Grove has an amazing garlic farm that’s created a garlic festival and all the things that you can do out of health benefits of growing garlic. Um, Quesnel has a food processing hub where any small producer can come in and find time to develop a food product and, um, grow out of their garden and, and learn how to shape that and share that with the world.

So I think this region’s very blessed in the abundance of agriculture that’s developed, in the amount of research that happens here. There’s a lot of people that, uh, embrace research and learning and testing and understanding Uh, food security that’s different maybe than the rest of the globe, um, because it’s right next door.

You, yes, we have grocery stores, but we also have farmer’s markets and we also have local farm gate sales, and you don’t have to buy food in a grocery store here if you don’t want to. 

Steve Henderson: You know, you spoke about implementing riparian zones, and I’m curious on Grey ghost, what are some of the broader, or what’s a short list of environmental Tactics that you’re implementing into your that we do here.

Amy Thacker: Yeah, so we do zero chemical inputs we create all of our own compost top dress all of our own fields develop all of our own topsoil we have a lot of riparian work and very thoughtful planning about where Pastures move where drainage moves so that we’re not impacting environment. We’re keeping the local wildlife and the environment intact to be able to give back to us.

Um, we are installing solar based water systems so that we’re not, um, increasing that power footprint, um, and have environmentally stable ways to provide it. It keeps the water It’s the animals off the creek beds and out of the riparian zones, um, but allows us a really natural way to flow water up to other places.

So yeah, all, all different things, all, everything here is naturally raised. So our, our gardens, our animals, all of it based on that premise. 

Steve Henderson: And building topsoil is such a journey too. 

Amy Thacker: It is, but you know, when you have all those little sheep and cows running around, it’s miraculously quick. 

Steve Henderson: Yeah, yeah,  fair enough, fair enough, totally.

Amy Thacker: Yeah, I get to compost all winter and then I get to, all my pastures, we leave it out, they’re natural and it’s, um, it’s quite amazing what you can build with topsoil when you work with nature and let it happen. And we do a lot of science and research, so we’ll, We take soil samples, we take water samples to understand what’s available to the plant from the ground and what sort of balance we need to be able to provide and keep it healthy so that weeds don’t encroach.

We do a lot of research with our livestock as well, so parasitic research studies, so that we’re not having to use dewormers and introduce chemicals, but it’s all done through science and natural selection. 

Steve Henderson: So, with some of these practices And with some of the other operators in the region. What are a few lessons that the CCC can teach the rest of the world?

Amy Thacker: A few lessons that the Caribbean Coast can teach the world about agriculture? 

Steve Henderson: Yeah.  

Amy Thacker: Um, I think balance with nature would be the primary one. I mean, we have some, everything from our small to our large cattle ranch producers have lived here for multiple generations. And have found that working in harmony with the land yields greater results than some of the also the urban view of mass agricultural production that you’ve seen and is the perceptions of the world that Preserving our waterways and working in balance with that land not only Delivers a better product and a healthier product to the consumer in the end from food security But it also keeps the land healthier and gives back higher yields and productions for multiple generations to come. 

Steve Henderson:  It’s that regenerative element that, it seems that people are rediscovering.

Amy Thacker: Rediscovering, yeah, yeah, I know, we’ve, I think we talked a little bit at the summit about the challenges of, you know, regeneration and greener and sustainability and yeah, there are places like this property where we’re sitting that absolutely need to be regenerated because they weren’t cared for in the same way and didn’t have that level of stewardship.

And then there’s other places where, I laugh, they’re labeled regenerative farms and, you know, they’re not. They have been for years. They’ve lived in harmony. They are giving back every day as part of that natural cycle of give and take. No different than how the trees share in the forests. Yeah. 

Steve Henderson: So I’m going to switch gears into kind of broader culture around the region.

And there’s a word that stood out in that last description that we have found popping up in many different contexts. And that’s stewardship in the region, whether it’s. It’s a small operator, a hunting guide, uh, Chris Harris and his photography, your work here at Grey Goose and your career, uh, Grey Ghost, how, is stewardship a big part of the culture here?

Cause we just see it bubbling up. 

Amy Thacker: Yeah. 

Steve Henderson: Can you speak about that a little bit? 

Amy Thacker: Yeah, absolutely. Stewardship, uh, is probably a word I could have used in my early description that is a common thread through the people here. Yeah. They’re proud of where they live, they’re proud of what they do, and stewardship is a way to keep doing that and, and have pride and share.

We see it across the cultures in the region, whether it’s through tourism or agriculture or our Indigenous partners, but that passion for the land and improvement and sharing it with the world is very, very common here. Part of what I love about working here.

Steve Henderson: Yeah. And how the visitors. Uh, encounter that stewardship 

Amy Thacker: Visitors can encounter the stewardship in all different ways I mean that really depends on the type of visitor and how they’re here from the one extreme and the ones that come seeking it and want to You know, lay hands on, there’s operators that allow them to do citizen science and they can get in and do bird counts and gather grizzly hair and collect white pine cone nuts to be reseeded and protect endangered species if they’re really want to jump in and actually do that work.

To ones that just come here to, to unplug and to relax and get to experience it through the passion of the people they’re meeting. But they’re. Um, eating a salad that came out of that garden. They are, um, going on a walk and enjoying the birds that return year after year and seeing people’s connections to the land and the stories that they can share.

Steve Henderson: Totally. And so, on that note, what are your neighbors like here? 

Amy Thacker: Our neighbors are great. They’re all far away, which is fantastic. My closest neighbor is about three kilometers down the road. Um, and I’ve got, oh, I’m thinking up the valley that way, there is a cattle ranch. Uh, across the valley above me is a lady that works at the Sylvia’s Cafe and just has a hayfield and a couple dogs and enjoys rural living with her own garden.

Next to her is, uh, an artisan that moved out here and is a woodworker and has a beautiful woodworking shop and designs and makes product and jewelry and stuff off the land. Um, yeah, and they’re all different. 

Steve Henderson: We’ve had a lot of kind of assumptions challenged as we go through the region. And there’s a shocking amount of artisans and interesting just people are like, wait, you live here and you do what kind of thing?

Amy Thacker: Yeah, we have some amazing world class musicians, artists, artisans, luthiers, guitar makers, jewelry makers, sound engineers in this digital world of connectivity that are like, Hold on. I don’t need to be in the studio in Vancouver. I can live here and connect with my sound recording studio and produce all over the world.

Um, and I think they come for the same reasons that draw us in tourism and agriculture. They come for that connection to the land and the peace and the balance of lifestyle that it gives them. Um, you see a lot of artists come here for the inspiration from the land and the nature and the landscape and then stay cause they fall in love with it.

Steve Henderson: And this would be a perfect, not joking. Location for a studio. Yeah, just silent at night the silent view. 

Amy Thacker: Yeah, and we have the coolest you can’t see it today But the coolest skies and stars with just the valley sunrises and sunsets and amazing stars at night 

Steve Henderson: Yeah, that’s great

How do or how does the Indigenous population and the settler population work together in this region? 

Amy Thacker: Oh, that’s a giant. It’s huge. Yeah, it’s a start. 

Steve Henderson: It’s a start. Yeah 

Amy Thacker: Um, I would start by saying it is as diverse as the landscape the the regions Size, uh, scope, scale, geographic diversity, I mean that we don’t, first of all, have one Indigenous nation.

There are multiple language groups, um, multiple nations, multiple Indigenous communities here. Uh, I think actually in tourism we work with 68 separate Indigenous communities across the region whose cultures vary. Wildly, depending on where they are and how land has shaped them and, and how, what their connection with the land is.

Uh, there is a lot of strong history of cooperation and work. I would say one of the things that I really love about this region is we’re all neighbours. And we’re all family, whether that’s Indigenous or non Indigenous. I mean, you guys had the pleasure of traveling with Cheryl and Mike. And, um, she’ll often introduce me.

This is mine. This is my Amy. And away we go. And, um, we’re there because we have common values. We work together for the same goals. And it’s very collaborative. Um, yeah. Yeah, I, I don’t know where to take that because it really depends, it’s a massive, massive thing, whether you’re talking economics or neighbors or tourism or sort of that evolution, I think there’s been a lot of continuous changes we’ve seen in the world and, and we’re seeing great storytellers like Mike and Cheryl engage in broader ways with the public than more than, you know, Just our neighbors, which is very much been the culture here.

And I think something that the provincial government doesn’t always understand that you guys were blessed to travel through the Chilcotin and there isn’t always an us and them. And sometimes there can be conflict points, but that often has nothing to do with culture. That has to do with a situation and a point in a conflict no different than if you and I were neighbors and had a fence dispute.

So yeah, it’s, it’s quite broad here. 

Steve Henderson: Yeah, and it’s, it’s been, even in our short time on this particular trip, we’ve learned so much just from Cheryl and Mike sharing with us, giving us a glimpse into their world and their work. It’s awesome. 

Amy Thacker: They are passionate storytellers that engage. Uh, more than just about anyone I know and are willing to, to give, that’s very much their calling is, is to share that and engage in sites like Historic Hat Creek Ranch and Barkerville Historic Town and Park and Mike and Cheryl were at Klahalia during the Olympics to make sure that they could engage with everyone and answer those questions and explain culture.

So yeah, it is a blessing to have them here sharing. 

Steve Henderson: That base of, you know, Indigenous history. Long, long time and memorial history in this region is just bubbling through the cracks and like it’s just center stage now. And it’s awesome to see it, you know, coming on like a tidal wave. 

Amy Thacker: Yeah, for sure. I think timing of the world’s interest in it to share it’s pretty critical in that.

I mean, if you, and I don’t know if Mike and Cheryl shared any of the history through Barkerville and the Gold Wash, but uh, Indigenous. guides guided Alexander Mackenzie through this region to the first, you know, viewing of the Pacific and they guided the gold seekers up to the gold and they mined beside them and ranched beside them.

Some of our iconic cowboys were Indigenous cowboys, um, when I was a kid and I mean, history is like the mountain horse race. Um, come out of that era of collaboration and working and sharing those cultures together. When my dad was a young man cowboying in the cariboo, um, the other two people he worked with were Indigenous, um, from the local band.

So I think here it’s, It’s been generations of beside each other and lifestyle, but the world is interested now to share and embrace that culture from a tourism experiential perspective. And Mike and Cheryl do a beautiful job of helping people craft those stories in a way that people can embrace and understand them and want to learn more.

Steve Henderson: What are some of the challenges the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast is facing at this time? As we were driving through this whole region, I mean, the impact of wildfires is massive. 

Amy Thacker: It is and it isn’t. Yeah. Yeah. 

Steve Henderson: Well, I’m curious to hear your perspective. 

Amy Thacker: For sure. So, definitely, um, this region has been in the news for wildfires and floods and, um, as has British Columbia the last few years with some major events.

It’s a major wildfire interface events with humans, which get us those headlines. Um, and our region in the last 10 years has seen its fair share of wildfires that have had broad impact in hectares burned and length of burn and, and those sorts of stats that we hear in the news all of the time. Um, I guess I shy away from the, it’s had a huge impact in that.

Fire is such a natural part of our landscape here. And despite how large those numbers are on the news, it’s still such a small percentage of our land base people, you know, you guys have had the opportunity to drive across it and see how massive it is. So, In the grand scheme of the bigger picture of the region, the fire impacts haven’t, you know, they haven’t devastated 20 percent where we’re going to see a massive environmental impact specific to the locale on that.

We’ve definitely seen impacted people and communities and operators and, you know, Tourism seasons with interruption to highways and people flow and smoke impact and from a business perspective, absolutely. But I think one of the things we need to do a better job of in looking at climate change and our regeneration and sustainability is understanding some of the traditional knowledge about flora and fauna, fire and what that brings back. Why is it happening? If, you know, we look back to the, the mountain pine beetle outbreaks and the spruce buds of the eighties and the practices that have happened, that have led to a situation with our, um, climate change and environmental situation that the fires burned that hot and that big.

There’s a reason for them that mother nature is bringing us. back into balance. And if we can learn from those things and work from those things, what comes out of the fire is amazing abundance and a new lease on balance. Um, from a tourism perspective, I don’t think we’ve done a great job in taking that opportunity to educate where we have in other ways.

Like, you know, people are fascinated by the fire. Mushroom pickers come in droves in that cycle, right? And the abundance that comes out of that from the morels. Um, Photographers come in year one because the wildflower bloom and vibrancy is there, but there’s so many other pieces and science and understanding as you watch the wildlife come back and nature come back more healthy that could be an educational tour and an opportunity for us to share with the world in a better way.

Steve Henderson: Yeah, I think it was, I mean, the famous quote from Rachel Carson, like after the winter comes the spring. Yes. 

Amy Thacker: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s very much that. I hope and sincerely hope that we’re all learning from those things. That the, the steps we took as humans that led to the situation that create those big fires are something we can learn from as nature gives us this clean slate again.

And that we’re. Improving our science and management practices every day. To live better in the balance. 

Steve Henderson: Yeah, so you mentioned briefly, you know, the wildfires affecting the perception of tourism in the region. How have, how has it affected external, like, urban markets, for example? Because, uh, and how have the operators overcome that?

Or how are they overcoming that? 

Amy Thacker: Yeah, yeah, the perception of wildfire and the impacts have definitely had a bigger impact on tourism in the region than the fires themselves. Um, globally our urban markets, um, have a fear of fire. Have a lack of understanding of the size and distance within our region and the proximity to things in that just general geography.

We’ve seen declines of bookings in what would be our core seasons of July and August, because people fear that, you know, a fire might break out and ruin their vacation. And I think it’s a little bit understandable when you lack the knowledge of the region, um, and the ability to adapt here. If you. Saved for three years for the trip of your dreams.

You would not want to be worried about things that would be interrupting it. And I think what we need to do with our tourism operators is provide more information about, um, the response that you talked about and the collaboration and the ability to move people and still give them a great experience if fire happens to be somewhere on their journey through this massive region or province.

Steve Henderson: It’s like you said, I mean, even if they encounter it, it’s a learning opportunity. Like, this is just a small piece of a very large puzzle. 

Amy Thacker: It is, and one of the beautiful blessings we have about the size of British Columbia is if, you know, if you came here for a guest ranch experience, um, From Germany and the guest ranch that you happen to be booked that’s near a fire and you are uncomfortable.

There’s hundreds others equivalent in the province and our operators have done a beautiful job with their planning and preparedness as hosts to find partner businesses that they could say to you as a guest like I understand your uncomfortability. Would you like to go down to my, you know, friend and neighbor 300 kilometers away and have the same experience you thought you were going to have in British Columbia with them so that you can be comfortable and, and that that’s the level of care and hospitality that happens here.

Steve Henderson: Yeah, totally. And I feel like, I mean, this is kind of a side, just as funny. Um, that idea of their neighbor being 300 kilometers away, it doesn’t really register for a lot of other people. 

Amy Thacker: No, I know. Yeah. Yeah. 

Steve Henderson: And so they’re like, Oh, how, how could I go with the, you know, it’s going to be everywhere. It’s like, well, it’s the second largest country in the world.

Amy Thacker: Yeah. Yeah. And it happens every day. And it happens with British Columbians. Um, we had an early fire here in the region a couple of weeks ago. My phone rang six times on this Saturday. Like, Oh my God, are you safe? I’m like, well, it’s about four hours from me, so I’m pretty sure, yep. Like, we have a beautiful, clear day and a lovely spring morning that day and, and it’s, yeah, not anywhere near us.

So, some of that amazing nature and breadth of landscape and distance is something that, uh, I suppose we as the tourism agency have to help convey a little bit better to reassure people. Awesome. Awesome. 

Steve Henderson: So if you were to just like, summarize a message, short paragraph to a visitor who’s worried about some of these challenges, how would you, how would you reassure them?

How would you reassure a visitor? or educate them, as a better word. 

Amy Thacker: Yeah, um, I think what I would say to visitors is that we are very fortunate Chacoan Coast and British Columbia to have a very connected tourism and hospitality industry. And they do an amazing job at hosting people and have plans to make sure that their visit is spectacular, that whatever comes, there is this vast network that will show you the hospitality and help you need to navigate that and still have a great experience and learn things along the way.

Steve Henderson: Right on. What misconceptions do you think people have about the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast? 

Amy Thacker: Oh, um misconceptions about the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast. I think they’re vast. I think it depends on what market and who you’re talking to. Some of the things I’ve, you know, encountered and experienced over the years.

Our complete opposite extremes, like I’ve had people call and say I’m flying into Vancouver, we’re gonna, you know, pop up for the day and I’m like, well, no, we’re an eight hour drive. It’s a little bit farther away from that. That whole just not understanding how large British Columbia is, how large Cariboo Chilcotin Coast is, the vastness of it.

Nature of that, um, we’ve had others that think because we are that vast and rural and have these, you know, the beautiful mountain peaks and wildlife that we show that, um, I don’t know sort of what sort of backwoods in the middle of nowhere they think they are, but they think they’re completely not just off grid in the way we talk about it from sustainability, but that they aren’t going to find cultured people and artisans and scientists and amazing things to learn.

Um, so we do see both extremes when we’re encountering people. We see a lot of shock that we don’t have cell service and we can still operate and survive and be connected to the world and modern and do research and that people embrace being disconnected here because they’re more connected to the land.

Um, yeah, there’s a, there’s a lot of them. 

Steve Henderson: Yeah, it’s, I mean, just on that one note of the self service thing, it’s funny how, you know, if you grow up in an urban center and you spend your whole life there, it just is like, it’s, it’s almost just as omnipresent as the air we breathe. 

Amy Thacker: Yes, just always there. I, um, I took a fam to Bella Coola a few years ago on a charter bus and we always like, you know, tell them what to be prepared for, tell them what to dress down, they’re not going to have self service, so make sure you’ve taken care of all your business and you’re totally focused on the trip.

Yeah. And we were on our way out of Williams Lake, headed west, going up the hill, and somebody on the bus was like, My phone just lost service! And I’m like, Yeah? It was in the briefing. Yeah, but it, but it’s actually gone. And I’m like, yes. And you won’t get it back until Balakula in three days as we, so even when you try to prepare people, it’s so present in their life that it’s still a bit of a shock for them.

Steve Henderson: God forbid. They have to look out the window on that, on that highway, right? 

Amy Thacker: See all the amazing wildlife that goes by and the landscapes. Yeah. Once, once they’re disconnected, you see this amazing embrace. and the experiences that are there, but it’s It’s, uh, definitely a bit of a culture shock for people.

Steve Henderson: I think it generally takes like two to three days for them to get it out of their system. And then they’re just like, Oh, like it’s wonderful.

Amy Thacker: Yeah. I’m, I’m very torn. Um, because we are getting cell service through the region and there is cell service now at Anahim Lake and Nimple Lake and Tatla Lake and going into Alexis Creek and the people who’ve lived there that want to connect and do business are like, yeah, we’re finally getting connected.

But there’s that little part of me that’s like, Part of that visitor experience shock is going to be missing and, uh, it’s definitely going to change how people experience the region. I think they’re going to miss a piece of magic that they’ve had for the last 20 years. 

Steve Henderson: Yeah. I guess, you know, silver lining is there’s always going to be a place. There is a triple C. 

Amy Thacker: There will always be somewhere to be off grid here and off cell service. Yeah. 

Steve Henderson: What do you hope or what would you like to see tourism become in this region looking forward? 

Amy Thacker: Uh, yeah, I would love to see Tourism’s independence, I think, would probably be the best way to describe it, Steve.

Um, I think one of the beauties of this region is that we don’t have to fight over tourism. We have this blessed connection with nature and are just remote enough that we’re outside of that. And my hope and vision is that we manage that well and maintain that, um, so that the visitor experience and that balance with nature is maintained, but that tourism as a sector is better understood for the lifestyle it can provide, for the education it can provide, for the cultural empowerment that it can provide.

And, um, tourism really is one of those things when done well, is a force for good. And I think those lessons here that can be shared with the world will elevate it and continue to grow it in stature. And, and I’d like to see it come into its own that way. 

Steve Henderson: What kind of visitor would make that possible? 

Amy Thacker: Um, I think our visitors are the people that are seeking knowledge.

They are seeking disconnection and understanding with the land. They’re curious. Um, They can be anything from someone that is coming here very purposefully to understand where their food comes from and how nature works and what that cycle is, to someone that was just looking for something different and didn’t know what, but found it here.

I think the commonality between the visitors that embrace and love the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast is that open curiosity and open heart to come see it for what it is and take that magical moment as it comes. Aren’t scripted. It’s not walking through the wildlife park, but when that cow moose walks out of the swamp walks up to you with a baby calf slider you need to Stop and enjoy the awe and magic of that moment that the universe has gifted you 

Steve Henderson: That’s beautiful.

Well, it will put what places and operators do you look up to as leading the charge towards that vision? 

Amy Thacker: We have a lot of pioneers in this region, um, and I honestly had no idea when I started my career here, how much this quiet little region had led the world in that innovation from, um, the first trail strategy and study of could mountain biking be a thing people would actually do sit on a shelf in our office from the 70s, um, to the first overseas offices.

There’s, um, amazing pictures of Japanese tourists in the 1950s driving through the Chilcotin to learn how to fly fish and then share between cultures globally. Um, and some of those leaders that I’ve learned and grown with and have mentored me in the region I look up to, I think of, um, Pat and Juanita Corbett that developed 108 and the Hills Health Ranch and took the idea when they moved there, I’ll never forget Juanita’s words that they, they got this property, they wanted to build a world class spa, And, um, Pat says he remembers saying like, what are we going to do with all these damn rose bushes?

There’s weeds everywhere. And we need to just calmly said, no, no, we work with the land, not against it. There’s something it can provide for us. And she innovated the first cold press that brings rosehip oil naturally out of them and uses it in spa products and health to this day, and has been an absolute mentor and visionary to the wellness world.

Or. People like Leonard Ellis, who, um, has guided on the central coast for his entire career living in Ocean Falls and Bella Coola and helped with conservation efforts to bring grizzly back. And we have the most amazing and abundant bear populations there today, from spirit bears to black bears to grizzly bears.

And, um, there’s lists and lists of those. visionary conservationists that were here because they love the land and are in tourism because they were had so much passion and pride they needed to share the story with somebody and It’s given them a lifestyle and it’s given them the life that they’ve raised their families on and and those are the people that I look Up to 

Steve Henderson: it’s a beautiful legacy to leave 

Amy Thacker: they do.Yeah, they’ve they’ve built careers and given back with so much It’s pretty amazing 

Steve Henderson: Speaking of legacy, what do you hope your legacy will be in the tourism industry and then for Grey Ghost? 

Amy Thacker: Oh, for both. So, uh, I was gonna cheekily say, um, my tourism legacy is to keep sailing the ship so we can find some calmer waters and help the entrepreneurs and communities that have a passion for sharing and sustainability and building it right, find the tools and resources they need to stay on that path. Um, for Grey Ghost Farm and the property, we’re gonna build a, a pretty amazing sustainable farm and ranch here that we can share with the world and not just feed friends and neighbors, but, uh, trial and experiment and, and show piece people in the world ways that you can actually raise food right here in your backyard.

Part of what I love about farming here is proving things that they say can’t be done. So, you know, growing eggplants and long English cucumbers in the Cariboo in our short growing season. Yeah, I’m, I’m a little bit of the rebel of tell me I can’t do it, I’ll show you how I can do it naturally. And let’s, let’s do that together.

Yeah.

Steve Henderson: What’s, what are some specific things that other destinations can learn from the region? 

Amy Thacker: Other destinations can learn? I don’t know. I guess it depends on the destination and what they’re seeking. Um, I think one of the things that I share most often is that we underestimate the power of the people and that balance of people and nature is what makes a place unique.

Successful and then we’ll enable it for all of the future generations. And the fact that we have a little bit of a legacy here of not building it for right now, but building it for future generations, I think is an important learning that the world needs to take away and that we need to continue to amplify.

Steve Henderson: For sure. And one thing that Cheryl said, when we asked her that question, um, she’s the only person out of, you know, a hundred people we’ve spoken with now that her answer was. Slow down. Slow down and reconnect.

Amy Thacker: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that’s why I love the farming. If people understood the impact they have and the impact they could make, and took those moments for just that little piece of learning, I think the world would be a profoundly better place.

Steve Henderson: Thank you, Amy, and uh, for having us on your farm. Yeah, for coming. And for inviting us into the region. 

Amy Thacker: Absolutely. Thank you for sharing the stories.

David Archer: This has been Travel Beyond presented by Destination Think, and you just heard Steve Henderson speaking with Amy Thacker at Grey Ghost Farm. The conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For more resources and show notes, visit the blog at destinationthink.com. This episode was produced and has theme music composed by me, David Archer, Sarah Raymond de Booy, my co producer, Lindsay Payne, and Jamie Sterling provided production support.

If you like what you hear, please take a moment to give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you’re listening. It helps more people find our show. And we’ll be back next time with more from the Cariboo Chilcotin Coast. We’ll talk to you then.