“Getting involved with e-bike rentals, it’s not just for tourists. […] I want to encourage more locals to start riding bikes, whether it’s a regular bike or whether it’s an e-bike. They both help with the climate action plans.” – Gordon Taylor

How can small steps lead to big changes? For T̓iick̓in (Thunderbird) Ebike Rentals, the answer starts with rethinking transportation—one ride at a time. More than just a bike rental service, the business is part of a larger vision to promote renewable energy, reduce emissions, and address the impacts of tourism on local resources.

Founded by Gordon Taylor of the Ucluelet First Nation, T̓iick̓in Ebike Rentals was created to provide practical, sustainable solutions to growing environmental concerns. Gordon sees electric vehicles as a first step in tackling greenhouse gas emissions and lessening the damage he has seen firsthand. “That’s what encouraged us,” he explains, sharing that EVs are an approach to “healing our land and doing it through our culture, through our teaching.”

Though his e-bikes are popular among visitors, especially on the newly opened ʔapsčiik t̓ašii trail (pronounced ups-cheek ta-shee) between Tofino and Ucluelet, Gordon’s mission goes beyond tourism. He wants to influence how both visitors and residents think about transportation, encouraging a shift toward sustainable transportation choices. For him, the business is about caring for all things, not just bikes on the trail, but people, the land, and future generations.

Like Tofino’s Common Loaf Bake Shop, which we visited earlier this season, T̓iick̓in Ebike Rentals is built on a higher purpose. It is rooted in responsibility to the environment, to the community, and to economic equity. By blending entrepreneurship with stewardship, Gordon Taylor is proving that small, intentional choices can create meaningful change.

You’ll also learn:

• How healing the land is rooted in culture and teachings.
• The dual role of e-bikes in serving both residents and tourists.
• The bigger vision of using renewable energy to address climate change.
• How shifting to sustainable transportation can transform communities.
• The challenge of balancing tourism’s economic benefits with its resource demands.

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Show notes

Indigenous Tourism BC — A non-profit organization dedicated to growing and promoting a sustainable, culturally rich Indigenous tourism industry in British Columbia.

Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council — A not-for-profit society that provides a variety of services and supports to fourteen Nuu-chah-nulth First Nations.

Pacific Rim National Park Reserve — A Canadian national park along the west coast of Vancouver Island that offers rugged shorelines, temperate rainforests, and rich marine ecosystems.

Tourism Tofino — Tofino’s official not-for-profit destination marketing and management organization.

Yuułuʔiłʔatḥ Government — A modern treaty government located in the community of Hitacu, on the west coast of Vancouver Island.

Episode transcript

This transcript was generated using AI and has been lightly reviewed for accuracy.

Gordon Taylor: Getting involved with e bike rentals, it’s not just for tourists. As a company, we want to approach all the managers and owners of the resorts. We want to approach the hospital about transforming how they get to work. Can they utilize e-bikes? Can they utilize neighborhood e-vehicles? Or any other form of EV transportation that’s available out there.

This is why I want to encourage more locals to start riding bikes, whether it’s a regular bike or whether it’s a e-bike. They both help with the climate action plans.

David Archer: Welcome to Travel Beyond. I’m David Archer from Destination Think, recording from Haida Gwaii, the territory of the Haida Nation off the north coast of British Columbia in Canada. On this show, we look at travel’s role in making a better world, and we highlight leading destinations and changemakers. Our guests are taking local action that the world can learn from, they’re helping to regenerate ecosystems, communities, and economies, and they’re often making positive change happen from the bottom up.

Today’s episode is all about transportation, including electric vehicles and many other sustainability solutions percolating in Tofino. Gordon Taylor is from the Ucluelet First Nation and he’s the owner of Thunderbird E-Bike Rentals. He and I spoke about how he’s using his business to give people great experiences outdoors while also making a difference on issues like climate change, economic equality, and local infrastructure.

As we get into today’s topic, here’s a brief message from Brad Parsell of Tourism Tofino.

Brad Parsell: Hi, I’m Brad Parsell, Executive Director at Tourism Tofino. We are a proud sponsor of this season of the Travel Beyond podcast. It’s been a real pleasure to be able to share all of these meaningful conversations about some of the positive things happening in Tofino related to tourism and the tourism industry.

I’d like to thank everyone who has participated in this season and in the first season that we did. The impact each of you are making is, is really inspiring and, uh, I hope many people around the world take away a lot from, from these episodes. Uh, and now your voices have been added to the ever expanding set of innovations and change makers highlighted through this Travel Beyond podcast, which has featured many other places aside from Tofino.

Many of them are part of the Destination Think Collective, which is a peer group of travel destinations that are tackling, uh, some of the future looking challenges and issues that we have with tourism, trying to take care of the planet and move towards a positive future for the travel industry. Tourism Tofino stands alongside destinations like Banff and Lake Louise, Cape Breton, Copenhagen, Seattle, and Queenstown Lakes in New Zealand, among others, in supporting each other as we move towards similar goals.

Right now, Tofino is working on a Tofino destination stewardship plan, and we’re taking so much inspiration from some of these podcast episodes and from the destinations we’re working with. And for today’s episode, I’m really, really excited to share this one with you. Uh, with Gordon, uh, transportation is definitely an important topic for us.

Getting visitors to Tofino and around the peninsula is key to anyone’s travel experience. It affects all of our daily lives here as well, and especially in the summer months. And we know that transportation can be really carbon intensive. So that’s why I’ve been really excited to learn more about Thunderbird E-Bike Rentals and the passion that Gordon is bringing to conversations about electric vehicles and other sustainability solutions.

So, thanks so much for listening and I hope you enjoy this episode of the podcast.

David Archer: Thank you, Brad. One thing that I took away from my conversation with Gordon is that he really sees his business as having a role to care for all things and not just his bikes on the trail. He’s thinking deeply about the details of EVs, business, tourism, and transportation, and also about the bigger picture of climate change.

Or relationships between nations and how policy changes affect all of those things. And that high level view combined with the detail is a rare combination. And so it was a privilege to speak with him. With that, please enjoy this final episode of this season in Tofino. Here is Gordon Taylor.

Gordon Taylor: Yes, I’m Gordon Taylor. I’m from, uh, Ucluelet First Nation. So, Ucluelet First Nation. I am the general manager of Qu’us’in Development Inc, DBA, T Bird E Bike Rentals.

David Archer: Great, and um, can you tell me a little bit about your connection to this area?

Gordon Taylor: Being a Nuu-chah-nulth person, I guess you could say we’re all connected.

Uh, we do have relatives, um, in Tla-o-qui-aht with the Franks. Um, Nellie Frank was a Cluedessee and my mother Mabel was a Cluedessee, so we’re closely related that way. We have a lot of relatives in Tla-o-qui-aht. Um, we established a business relationship here last year. So that’s why we have presence at Tin Wis.

David Archer: And tell us about, about life in, in Ucluelet or in this area. What do you, what are some things you love about living here?

Gordon Taylor: I love living here because of the peace and tranquility, and the nature, and the oceans that we have access to. I utilize the woods for walking in, and that’s why I speak about tranquility, it just brings that sense of tranquility to me when I, when I’m walking around in the woods with my dogs. Just seeing the benefits of living on the coast. You know, the wildlife that we have here, it’s not per se wild encounters like you’re meeting tigers or lions in the African, right? We’re a different type of wildlife.

They prefer to run from us. But anyway, you know, um, I was born in Port Alberni and we moved to Ucluelet in 1967. So, our family’s been born in Ucluelet. My dad, up to me, been living at, um, Ucluelet First Nation. We’re now a treaty nation since 2011. The opportunities of work was plentiful when I was growing up.

Say when I, I started work when I was 15. Uh, we started working for our nation. We were taking care of elders’ homes, cleaning gutters and painting homes. And we also had to clean beaches, which at the time wasn’t occupied, but because people used them for a half hour walk in, leave the garbage behind. So as employed students, it was part of our job to clean up the beaches.

And this just brought me closer, you know, like I said, enjoying the outdoor life. Um, we spent a lot of time in Port Alberti running around in the woods, which is a lot different than today because we can’t do that. But from my experience of walking around the woods, it lasted 40 years.

David Archer: Yeah. What prevents you from doing that here in the woods?

Gordon Taylor: We’re second, third growth. There’s not a lot of old growth around in our territories. Um, Port Alberni was different from what I experienced when I was between the ages of six and 10, remembering how we were able to run around in the forest. In this type of forest that we’re in today, it’s second growth and third growth generation trees.

But they don’t grow like old growth. Their roots are much higher. There’s more holes in the ground. It’s not compacted, so. You have to be careful where you step, so you can’t run around in the woods, otherwise you’re gonna bust a leg. So, you see the differences.

David Archer: And, and you said that, um, so some of your early work experience involved cleaning up beaches as well, which is a job that continues today.

So, so that would have been back in the 1970s? 

Gordon Taylor: Um, early 70s.

David Archer: And, and some of this was to clean up after visitors that came to town? What was the, what was the sense about tourism then, if you can think back that far? Like, were, were people welcoming of visitors and excited for opportunities, or was, how did, how did things feel?

Gordon Taylor: Growing up, Ucluelet was 90 percent industry. Okay. Tofino was, at the time, more a tourism town. So growing up in an industry town where logging, they employed 300 plus men. Fishing, uh, fishing industry, probably the same amount. Numbers per big plant. There was two big plants. And then we had, um, probably anywhere from 8 to 12 small offloading docks.

David Archer: Yeah, there’s been so much change.

Gordon Taylor: So much change, right? Uh, once industry, industry started shutting down in the late 90s, Ucluelet started grasping for more tourism, like building more places for people to stay. Black Rock didn’t start getting developed until 2007. So it just tells you, um, how long it took Ucluelet to get into the tourism game, as opposed to always being involved in tourism.

There is probably a couple of families in Ucluelet, non Native families, that were more involved in tourism. Like with motels and I don’t think they had airBnBs back then.

David Archer: Probably not that far back. Not that far back. Yeah.

Gordon Taylor: You know, it’s just, just to say that’s generally how I seen the towns operating when I was growing up.

David Archer: Yeah. So it’s been quite a transformation over time. I’d like to, to jump into the present now and, uh, and talk a little bit about, um, your current business with electric vehicles. Can you tell us about your business?

Gordon Taylor: We incorporated Qu’us’in Development Inc in November of 2020. Then COVID hit. So we weren’t permitted to open until June of 2021.

It was a slow build, like it’s still slow, but, um, we decided, uh, to start with a business to address e-transportation. And our first step was decided we’re going to get involved with e bikes because of the development of the ʔapsčiik t̓ašii trail through Parks Canada. And meaning that Alberni Clayoquot Regional District will fix a one and a half kilometer section, pave it as well.

So that way, using e bikes on those bike paths is a no brainer.

David Archer: Yeah, absolutely.

Gordon Taylor: And just how we as First Nations, how, how can we develop it? What can we incorporate into it? So our first step is looking at the different types of e bikes that are accessible on the mainland for us to use. Trying to decide, okay, there’s so many of them.

And we decided, um on three brands started our business, uh, June the 1st of 2021 and, uh, three years working at, uh, Euclid Tofino Junction. Just this last September, we opened up a new location at Tin Wis Best Western in Tofino. Operating two of them is just, I think, creating that next step for us. So, just seeing that, um, getting involved with e bike rentals, it’s not just for tourists.

We want to encourage, as a company, we want to approach all the managers and owners of the resorts. We want to approach the hospital about transforming how they get to work. Can they utilize e bikes? Can they utilize neighborhood e bikes? Um, e vehicles or any other form of e vehicle transportation that’s available out there.

David Archer: So, backing up a little bit, because I want to ask you about all that, but what has made you so passionate about electronic or electric vehicles and, and, yeah, why did you decide on that? 

Gordon Taylor: As a family meeting, it was decided that, um, because of all the environmental damages going on around us, you know, not just, Alberta, Clayoquot Regional District, but Ireland and if you look at Canada itself and the proclamation of how can Canada address climate change.

So as a family meeting, it’s deciding we as First Nations, how are we going to accomplish this? So it is decided our first step is renting out e bikes because it addresses cutting down GHG emissions. That’s what encouraged us to help a way of healing our land. Doing it through our culture, you know, through our teaching and what can we do to help heal our land.

So that’s, that’s how that was decided. Okay. And then, uh, once we’ve built up that and we’ve got staff, then once a month we’re going to go down to within our territory and pick up garbage on the foreshores.

David Archer: So helping out in different ways and, um, and so there’s a, there’s definitely a climate lens that you’re looking through.

Gordon Taylor: Yes, yes. 

David Archer: What would a healed land look like from your perspective, or, you know, aside from greenhouse gas emissions, are you hoping to see changes locally?

Gordon Taylor: Locally, yes. Um, I’ve studied, uh, District of Ucluelet, District of Tofino, Yakut First Nation, ACRD, I studied all of their, um, climate action plans. And how can our company adapting to these plans and being the smartest thing to do was anything electric.

So our motto is Everything E. And this is another way of, uh, just quoting our goals. How are we going to achieve climate change? How much of an impact can we have in changing people’s minds on how the development of e transportation is more beneficial to communities, right? And just seeing that, um, it’s going to be.

A long fight. So I’m hoping that more exposure on, on our part, on what we are and what we want to accomplish, we can’t do it ourselves. We need the participation of all groups of people, whether they’re locals, whether they’re visitors, whether they’re tourists, whether they’re corporations.

David Archer: Yeah. So you, you have your mission.

As a business has a, has a pretty wide scope then, you know, changing people’s mindsets and behaviors a little bit as visitors and as residents, right? Yes. What do you hope to see for residents in this area? You mentioned the trail that we’ll talk about, you know, changing how people go to work at the hospital, for example.

Are there other examples like that that you’d like to see happen?

Gordon Taylor: Well, examples like that, I think it’s just ACRD having understanding if they want to implement a e transportation plan. And they want to encourage entrepreneurs to get involved in it. The committees that they have, we should be invited there to state what, what our, um, company is trying to achieve.

Okay. And like I said, you know, just looking at the, uh, community action plans, climate action plans. That’s why I was saying it’s, it’s going to be a stronger battle to convince people to change that mindset. Taking that five minute car ride over a 15 minute bike ride.

David Archer: Um, are there any other ways that you want to change people’s mindsets?

Like their day to day travel behavior is one. Are there other, other things that you’d like them to think about?

Gordon Taylor: Maybe starting with the households. How many, how many gas powered vehicles do they own? Think about how many trips they have to take when they go to the post office, when they go grocery shopping, when they go play sports.

Do they have to hop in a their gas powered vehicle to get to these places. If they’re within a 10 to 15 minute travel time of a vehicle, when you’re in a district from point A to point B, you’re probably going to cover everything within 10 to 15 minutes. This is why I want to encourage more locals to start riding bikes.

You know, whether it’s a regular bike or whether it’s a e bike. They both help with the, uh, climate action plans. You know, once that ball starts rolling, Right now, it’s just a minimum, uh, P ball. Yeah. You want to get it to a boulderer at some point, right? Where it has that traction. You just keep growing to grow.

People will start realizing the small little one and what they’re trying to achieve, get a better understanding of how they can help. So it’s not just, uh, a local business trying to dictate the focus is to cut down regular gas vehicles going down to the district to eat, to shop. Go to a charter boat or something like that, right?

Because the biggest problem in both districts is having access to parking spots. An example, if you, if we went down in July to go shopping at the co op, you would spend anywhere from half hour to an hour riding around trying to find that specific spot to Yeah. So you don’t have to walk three blocks to get to the grocery store.

David Archer: Yeah, so parking is a big challenge in the summer. It’s a big challenge. Yeah. Are there any other transportation challenges that this could help with?

Gordon Taylor: We do have a shuttle service. There’s a free shuttle here in Tofino provided through the businesses to help operate a shuttle from Tofino to Long Beach.

ACRD and VCTransit introduced a two bus shuttle service between all the communities, but there’s a shortfall there. They’re utilizing older municipality gas buses, their lack of support for drivers, so it’s not operating seven days a week.

David Archer: Okay, it needs more funding or that’s part of the equation? 

Gordon Taylor: That’s part of the equation.

I did, I did write a letter to ACRD expressing my concern and try to stress, um, truth and reconciliation opportunities for first nations entrepreneurs to introduce types of e transportation that would help the communities. Like all of my said, your regular gas buses aren’t being a benefit and they’re not operating as they should.

And I would like to come up and help with a solution if they would, you know, consider partnering with them. Indigenous business has that ability to provide. Yeah. In different forms of e transportation.

David Archer: Are there any other tangible solutions, uh, transportation wise that you’re excited about right now?

Gordon Taylor: I did, uh, create a partnership with Envo, uh, Distribution Systems in Burnaby.

Um, they also provide electric outboard motors. So this kind of piques my interest as well because if we have a few charter boats within our nation, um, for the nation to get involved with e vehicle charging systems for Yeah, commercial boats, so that they don’t have to use fuel, they can run solely on dual, uh, electric motors, because we’re not going, say before we used to go offshore fishing 50 miles, there’s no way that’s going to happen anymore.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. People want to view wildlife. There’s not that much wildlife out in the ocean. So the main focus is going to be harbor and park with sound. That’s why I think changing outboard motors from gas to EV boat motors would be, uh, a big benefit.

David Archer: I’d like to talk a bit about the ʔapsčiik t̓ašii Trail.

I, I understand that you were involved with, with the collaboration there. Can you tell us about, uh, how you were involved?

Gordon Taylor: No, I wasn’t actually involved. Uh, it was our elders, both from Clayoquot and Ucluelet. They formed a group of six, I believe, that spoke. about the development of the path, because Parks had to talk to our nation.

So they got the, uh, ʔapsčiik t̓ašii Elder Advisory Group together, and then the elders would come talk to us at a, at a local community meeting.

David Archer: Right. So, uh, the collaboration was Parks Canada and two nations, the Tla-o-qui-aht and Ucluelet? 

Gordon Taylor: Yes, Ucluelet, yeah, and the elders. Okay. So, once they said that, then the Elders Advisory Group was formed for the ʔapsčiik t̓ašii Trail.

And, uh, four years of contributing their, uh, elderly, um, how do you say it, wisdom on how the paths should be developed. ʔapsčiik t̓ašii is on the right path, so, um

David Archer: Seems like it could have multiple interpretations too, right? 

Gordon Taylor: Exactly right. And, um, I got involved, um, uh, once the bike path opened, renting e bike.

But I also pushed Parks, uh, since we open business in 2021 for trail maintenance contracts. And we finally, two years ago, or last year, got our first contract. But they’re only 40 day contracts. This year, we got, I think we’ve got two more. So we’re being involved in the maintaining the bike path from zero kilometer to 12 kilometer, including Wickaninnish Road.

So zero kilometer to two kilometer on that stretch.

David Archer: And when did the path open?

Gordon Taylor: Officially, um, June. Of last year, I believe.

David Archer: And it connects the communities of Ucluelet and Tofino. Yes. Um, and can you describe kind of what environments that it’s passing through?

Gordon Taylor: I would say on the Ucluelet side, we’re more, more in the woods.

And that’s why I always tell people, you know, if you come on this side, you, you will enjoy the tranquility of the path. Just because you’re away from traffic, you’re away from the noise. When you come to Tofino to use the path, Tofino has more visitors. So they have more bikers. So this side of the path from Tofino to tourism Tofino office, it’s always filled with bikes.

Whereas Ucluelet side, we’re six, eight kilometers out of town, so right. It’s peaceful and quiet once you get on your bike to head out. Yeah. Okay. So there is the differences that way here. The bike path is almost majority of it’s a long highway. If you ride back out, you’ll, you’ll see.

David Archer: Yeah. Yeah. So the Tofino side is, is less in the woods as well.

Gordon Taylor: Yeah. Okay. And that’s why I say, come to Ucluelet, enjoy, enjoy the bike path on this side. Yeah. You’ll be amazed on the difference.

David Archer: Um, I was wondering if, if you might be able to tell me what sort of guidance the nations or, or your nation might have been giving to the creation of that trail. Like what, what sort of ideas or mindset were the elders bringing to those meetings, do you think?

Gordon Taylor: Well, we wanted to make sure that we didn’t develop in front of the ocean. It was, there was a proposal that we go right along the coast. But then, that mindset is, you’re opening up more corridors for wildlife encounters with humans. Um, that’s why it was suggested they probably had to go to two or three meetings to establish the main path as it is today, right?

It’s just saying that they don’t want along the coast, it’s not just wildlife encounters, but there’s certain areas where there’s big banks. You look at Florencia. If you ever go down to Florencia, you head south, you’ll pass a river, you go another half kilometer, then you’ll see how high the land is along those sides.

But there are also eroding banks, and you know, I take pictures of those yearly.

David Archer: Yeah, to measure the progress? 

Gordon Taylor: Yeah. Because, um, the other part of the climate change is the rise of our ocean. How is it impacting our land? But anyway, it was determined that it would be better served to have the trail run closer to the highway.

Because then they’re probably thinking about emergencies as well. Because how is an emergency vehicle going to access anybody if they’ve got hurt on the ocean front? Yeah. As opposed to Being two miles away from a highway. So it’s just going to take longer for emergency situations to be taken care of.

David Archer: Yeah, that’s that’s a great point. So yeah, are you pleased with how the trail ended up and how the collaboration included?

Gordon Taylor: I am happy on how it ended up, but the collaboration part with Parks Canada and the Nations um, we were supposed to have access to a community benefits program, which would create ambassadors, which would also create those trail maintenance, uh, annual workers, and it’s never happened.

Once the path was finished development, it created more problems for Parks. I don’t know if that maybe the rug got pulled out out of that program, because now Parks have to focus more on taking care of the bike path. Took them away from their other duties of taking care of the park.

David Archer: Right, right. And the ambassadors that you mentioned, uh, are those cultural ambassadors?

Gordon Taylor: Are they cul uh, cultu we if anything, the push from our company for, for ambassador would be cultural. So either our trail maintenance people, or our tour guides, or anybody that works for us, being on the trail would be identified as an ambassador.

David Archer: Got it. Yeah, so you’d be able to interact with visitors.

Gordon Taylor: If they had the questions.

David Archer: Yeah. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Let’s zoom out a little bit, tourism wise, and talk about how tourism affects Ucluelet and the area. Do you think that the environment can sustain people visiting here all year round?

Gordon Taylor: That’s a tough question. When I look at numbers, first we look at the BC ferries.

They bring over 22 million people annually, 22 million plus. Two million reach the coast, if maybe one to two million. And having that impact, um, for me I think about The amount of vehicle traffic we have. So yes, that kind of impacts because 99 percent of the time they’re coming over in gas vehicles.

Sometimes they’re coming with two people, sometimes it’s coming with one people. There is family groups, but too far and in between for me. Um, there is a difference in how they spent their dollars in Ucluelet, as opposed to how they spent their dollars in Tofino. Tofino has a 280 million dollar annual economy, tourism economy.

Ucluelet is anywhere between 40 and 60 million dollars.

David Archer: Okay, that’s a huge difference. It’s only 25 kilometers apart, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Gordon Taylor: So this is saying the comparison between tourism that’s presented in Tofino and the tourism that’s presented in Ucluelet. Ucluelet is still a baby. Yeah. Tofino’s been active in tourism for decades.

So, there is that difference.

David Archer: Yeah. There’s a question, should it catch up to Tofino, right? And what, what does that look like? Like, if, if Ucluelet is the, the baby destination, what does it look like when it becomes a teenager or a grown up?

Gordon Taylor: What we have to be mindful of right now, if we look at, um, Tofino, Ucluelet, we all have staffing issues.

There is no, not enough homes, uh, built, whether it’s our government, uh, whether it’s tourism businesses. Um, commercial businesses. When you look at the papers, or westerly, on how many jobs are advertised every month, one pager. Yeah. And there’s like 50 businesses named on there looking for workers. So in saying, if we increase tourism in Ucluelet, housing development has to be in place, because now we’re going to be inviting more workers in, right?

And they’re not going to come single, they’re going to come couples, they’re going to have couples with kids. Those are things we need to think about. But can we develop it like that? A little mini house like this in order to incorporate people to stay in that mindset of buying 800, 000 to two million dollar homes in either community. It’s just not cutting it.

David Archer: Is there an inequality factor at play here as well? Like how do you think about that between visitors and residents?

Gordon Taylor: There is an inequality because I’ve done a lot of study in into our nations and to the district’s consumer, uh, wages. Our nation, First Nations and Seattle seem to be farther behind.

They’re in the 20, 000 to 30, 000 range of earnings annually. Where you look at, uh, Tofino’s report, um, Clayoquot Biosphere Trust, they submitted a report and this is where I got some of my information from. In the districts, I think the average earnings is 40, 000.

David Archer: So a major difference. 

Gordon Taylor: Major difference. I don’t know if that’s because First Nations is tax free, it shouldn’t be a factor.

You know, this, this is where I see that mindset of First Nations entrepreneurs trying to get ahead. If you can’t make it through your first three years, you’re not, you’re not going to make it. I told my daughter, I said, we’re on the fourth year. We’re finally going to be able to employ you full time. But also we’ll be able to take that next step of hiring more employees.

And that doesn’t happen too often, is from what I see. From Indigenous businesses? From Indigenous businesses.

David Archer: What do you think about the local mindset in terms of restoring the ecosystem? Do locals understand what’s needed to restore the ecosystem?

Gordon Taylor: Not unless we did an actual presentation of what’s going on.

Should we be scared of the ocean rising? Because if you look at land erosion, That’s part of climate change. Yes. That has to be addressed. Um, the other parts of it is, um, how can we as a nation adapt to renewable energy use rather than, uh, uh, BC Hydro? How do we get off paying the districts all the time, whether it’s for garbage service, whether it’s for, uh, water service as well.

David Archer: Yeah. So the infrastructure, how do you feel about how tourism affects local infrastructure? We’ve spoken to some other people who are concerned about water and sewer and that kind of thing.

Gordon Taylor: That’s another thing I think about here, you know, coming to Tofino and being involved in a tourism business. Years ago, the District of Ucluelet had to supply the District of Tofino with water because they had run out.

So they’re at a level four, um, water emergency. After that, I thought they would have learned to adapt. So they wouldn’t have to call out for businesses to cut down their water consumption to ask their guests. Oh, can you bathe once a week? Right, you know things like that, right?

David Archer: Yeah, and you mentioned the less rainfall happening.

Gordon Taylor:  Yeah, so in getting back to that story last year, we come to face the same situation again I’m going jeez you would think in that time frame somebody would have a bulb would have popped in their head.

Hey, I need to start collecting rainwater. We’re a rainforest.

David Archer: Yeah,

Gordon Taylor: You know it’s utilized all over. Why can’t we, in the district, utilize the collection of rainwater? So then it cuts down on regular consumption of water. So you don’t have to face those level 1, 2, 3.

David Archer: Yeah. Do you think that tourism 

Gordon Taylor: Oh, you were talking about how does it impact?

Yeah. When we get that influx of tourists, what do we offer? Surfing, hot tubs, meals. But everything utilizes water. So if we’re getting a million visitors a year, I mean, which is great. It helps the economy. But people have to think about how does that impact our resources. Do we ask people to bring water in?

And somebody got mad because it was suggested, oh, maybe you should bring 21 litre bottles in so you don’t have to yeah, that’s an idea. But it’s up to us to put that word out there. Hey, let’s soften our fresh water consumption. Well, 21 litres a bottle for your stay for three days? Um, how do we address hot tubs?

David Archer: Yeah,

Gordon Taylor: You know, again, to me, that’s rainwater collection, taking it out of the tap. I mean, there is solutions out there. People have to realize, if we talk about Uclulet growing so that they can accommodate tourism, what’s going to happen to our water and our sewage treatment systems? It’s going to get overwhelmed because now you have more tourists, but you’re also bringing in more workers, you’re developing more homes.

Ucluelet First Nation is provided water from the district. They also um, cycle back sewage back to the district to treat and saying if Ucluelet it gets to that point where they hit 5, 000 people and we increased double our tourists coming to Ucluelet, the district will kick our nation off because they don’t have the ability to treat our sewage.

So, as you’re saying, Ucluelet needs to think about self sufficiency.

David Archer: Yeah.

Gordon Taylor: And same with the, same with the district.

David Archer: Sure, yeah. Like, one, one creative solution is to ask people to bring some water and to be mindful of how they use it. Do you think that, uh, some of, more of the funding coming, or the revenue coming from tourism can be put towards infrastructure projects?

Or do you think there, there’s that responsibility from the industry as well?

Gordon Taylor: I think it should work both ways. You know, you, you put your hand in the pot, then you’re supposed to go over here. And you’re supposed to go over here. You know, it was okay, but to make it easier, this is where districts should say, okay, they get, um, sourcing out funding programs that are applicable to what needs to be done, not just sourced out by a single business.

Me, I’m saying it because I can set an example. Mine is just e bikes. But in the other areas of creating renewable energy, this is where the districts to go after. Talk to the businesses. How can we implement this to solve these solutions?

David Archer: Yeah. So you’re looking for more collaboration.

Gordon Taylor: Yes. And this is where truth and reconciliation come in as well, right?

Right. So this, that’s what I wrote a letter to the NTC, uh, President Judith Sayers about each EV transportation that it’s an opportunity for First Nations and their territories to be able to utilize EV transportation. We should be taking control of these EV charging systems, hoarding a bunch of EV vehicles so that we could rent them out so that we don’t have 200 or 300 gas vehicles coming into our territory every day. This thing, this is time for us to say truth and reconciliation, talk about economic opportunities. This is a big one, EV transportation. And I’m saying this is, um, because I was asked about it, would I be a template? And I told you to say it’s the same thing.

I would be a template. I’d approach any nation that wanted to get involved in EV transportation. So that opens up more economic opportunities for their youth. Because it’s not just, you’re not just renting e bikes. You have to train for customer service. You have to train a manager. You have to train e bike technicians.

And once you get involved into little smaller EV vehicles, now you need that EV  Mechanic.

David Archer: Yeah. And all that, that business activity would hopefully go some way to balancing the scales you were talking about earlier financially for people, right? 

Gordon Taylor: Mm hmm. Yeah. I told my daughter, I said, you know what, they said, I don’t like, um, having to pay you guys this dollar amount.

I said, just based on what’s going on, what I see, what other people are earning, I said, we’re paying ourselves peanuts. After year five, I want you guys to be in the 48 to 60 grand mark. And by the time your dad retires, I want you at 72 and even earning 72, we’re still not the living wage. I think two people working together is 90, 000 in order to be in that living wage category, right?

So how is we as First Nations supposed to survive on 20 to 30, 000? And this is where I want the nation to support our company a little better, because what we’re trying to do is also create employment. It’s not just for my family of four, um, the way I see it, two years from now, it’s possible to have 20 employees.

David Archer: That’s wonderful. Yeah, and all these things are so intricately connected, right? 

Gordon Taylor: Yes, they are. Yeah. And, uh, this is what we always say, you know, everything’s, everything’s interconnected.

David Archer: What would you like this area to look like in 50 years?

Gordon Taylor: A managed forest. An unlogged forest, for one. Creeks, uh, rivers replenished. With the types of fish that shouldn’t be there. That we’re actually eco sustainable. When I looked up the definition of eco sustainable, it describes First Nation people 300 years ago.

On how we took care of the land. And I read that out at Indigenous Tourism BC AGM a couple weeks ago. 

David Archer: So if there was one thing that you would want your surrounding communities to know from that perspective, what would it be?

Gordon Taylor: Live as one. Live as one. There’s too much that drives certain parties away. If we don’t work, if we don’t do, if we can’t accomplish working as one, then how can we accomplish taking that next step of taking care of our environment?

David Archer: And can you tell me one thing that gives you hope right now?

Gordon Taylor: The support that we’ve been developing through other businesses. Okay. Which gives me hope that, yes, we can accomplish our next steps of addressing e transportation within our districts. You know, what I see, and that’s what I probably tell my daughter now, is that, see, after four years of hard work, things are starting to take a step, even though they’re small, that we’re going to have a bigger growth next year.

Yeah. Be ready for it. Yeah.

David Archer: It’s exciting.

Gordon Taylor: It’s going to be exciting..

David Archer: That’s great. Um, uh Is there, is there anything else that you wanted to say to me or to our listeners about your business or about Ucluelet or anything else?

Gordon Taylor: Maybe better, a better understanding of where Kuwas First Nations people try to address things in present day, as opposed to how we dealt with it pre contact.

Because now you have to look at it as we’re educated differently. We do have cultural, but we also have Western education. And I always say, we need to utilize the Western education to more benefit our people in that way. We can’t just be high school graduates. We have to look at plenty fields of, uh, the playing field of what should we be involved in.

If we truly want to be self sufficient, we need to encourage youth every day to complete and graduate school and move on to university to things that will benefit. Not just themselves, but any community they go into not saying because not half the time they don’t come home to be able to utilize that education. They get to benefit them and the communities are going to be working for so you say I don’t want to tie down individuals to say oh, no, you’re just gonna stay here for years.

David Archer: You have a bigger vision than that. Yeah

Gordon Taylor: The other thing too is we always talk about seven generations I said, if you look up the definition of seven generations, I said, we need to look at 250 plus years. We can’t do five year, 25, 50 year planning. We need to plan further down the road to ensure that our families down the future benefit from what we’re teaching.

What can be accomplished by working together, whether they’re First Nations or non Indigenous people.

David Archer: Yeah, I would love to see a 250 year tourism plan out there, right? Yeah. Just to see that kind of thinking happening.

Gordon Taylor: It would take a lot of work. It gives you that mindset of, we’re not just developing, how are we going to develop?

Are we going to be sustainable?

David Archer: Yeah. Or as one of our guests has said, sustainability means being in business forever. That’s a big idea to think about.

Gordon Taylor: Yeah, yeah, all depends on the business.

David Archer: Yeah, there’s so many exciting solutions and ideas that are possible and I want to thank you for taking the time to share some of those with us.

It’s been really fun. Thank you. So thank you. 

Gordon Taylor: I really enjoyed it.

David Archer: This has been Travel Beyond presented by Destination Think, and that was Gordon Taylor from Thunderbird E Bikes in Tofino, BC. For more resources and show notes, visit our website at DestinationThink.com. This episode was hosted, produced, and has theme music composed by me, David Archer, Sarah Raymond de Booy is my co producer, Lindsay Payne, Jamie Sterling, and Cory Price provided production support.

If you like what you hear, please give us a five star rating wherever you happen to be listening because that helps more people find us. To sign off, I’d like to thank Tourism Tofino for sponsoring this season of Travel Beyond and for hosting me in The Destination. It’s been a real treat to work with you all on this and I’d like to thank each of our guests as well from this season.

It’s been a pleasure to meet all of you. This has been the last episode of our series in Tofino, but we’ll be back with more travel innovations in sustainability next week. So thanks for listening. See you then.